Storytelling for Connection, Clarity, and Coping with ADHD – with Grant Crowell

In this special storytelling edition of Thriving with ADHD, host Nada Pupovac welcomes back voiceover artist and ADHD advocate Grant Crowell for a refreshing, reflective, and at times hilarious conversation about the power of storytelling as a practical tool for thriving with ADHD.

Instead of a classic Q&A format, Grant shares personal stories from high school, challenging workplaces, career transitions, and networking events — all highlighting how creative communication, self-awareness, and humor can be game-changing strategies for adults with ADHD.

💡 What you’ll hear in this episode:

• How a high school runner with undiagnosed ADHD developed a memory strategy using anagrams
• What it’s like working in an environment that’s not ADHD-friendly—and what to do about it
• Lessons from live radio and voiceover work on communication, failure, and growth
• A creative networking tip called the “Face Tag” that blends cartooning and connection
• How storytelling activates memory, builds empathy, and creates opportunities for deeper understanding

Whether you’re newly diagnosed or years into your ADHD journey, this episode offers warmth, insight, and encouragement to explore the stories that shape your life—and maybe even share them with others.

🔗 Connect with Grant Crowell:

• LinkedIn: Grant Crowell
• Book: Grand Chasms: Creative Twisted Words for Cool People on Amazon

Thank you for listening to Thriving with ADHD. This show is produced by Animo Sano Psychiatry. For more information about our clinic, please visit animosanopsychiatry.com.

Animo Sano Psychiatry has introduced new services for enhancement of our patients' mental health - ASP Concierge and Health & Wellness Program. Please visit our website to learn more.

Animo Sano Psychiatry is constantly looking for the talent in behavioral health. If you are a psychiatrist, nurse practitioner, physician assistant, or mental health therapist, we'd love to hear from you. Visit our Careers pages to learn more about the available positions. https://animosanopsychiatry.com/careers/

Transcript

Grant, welcome back to. Thriving with A DHD. You're now our friend, I, I, I'd like to say, and we like, uh, sharing stories with you. And so far you've been our guest and, uh, you were talking about, um, work, uh, A DHD and the workspace, and then some, uh, communication, uh, tips, et cetera. But when we talked, we said, you know what? Let's not do another q and a lecture style podcast. You have loads of experience as a person who lives with A DHD and sharing stories is invariable to people who live with A DHD. They can find themselves in the these stories and. You will be so kind to share some lessons that you learned, some tips from these stories, et cetera, that help you to shape your life further. So I'm really excited to have you again and to, uh, share your stories with our listeners and I hope they will be useful to anyone who is, um, following this show. So I'll come back. Thank, thank you. I was gonna say first thing, thanks for not banning me from the show. My, my, my no worries. My third time hearing you. Who wants to hear me lecture? Anybody? Yeah. I get lectured a bit sometimes, but, uh, yeah. Thank, thank you. And I'm, I'm glad we talked about this. Mm-hmm. Because I really enjoy the power of storytelling and I think it's only recently have I really given a lot of thought to how that helps. People with a h adhd, not both children and and adults. And I was starting to look at more and more research and why the A DHD brain responds well to that. I mean, it's kind of funny. I did a, I did a book called Grand Chasms, twisted Creative Words for Cool People, where every made up word. I do, from my observations, how my HD brain works is I want to come up with a word for something. But I was also telling anecdotes, which were short stories, and those were like the hooks, the anchor or the mnemonic device to remember stuff. And what I thought I could start off with is. Alright. What is, what is my definition of a story? Mm-hmm. Because I think that will be very relatable to what we're gonna talk about today. Okay. Well, if you look at it on the most. Basic terms. A story is just a recollection of events. But that doesn't sound too exciting. A story could be. Yeah. I woke up, I went to the grocery store, I came back home and I went to bed. Okay. That's a story, but it, but it's, it's not anything that's really worth telling. In, in there Is it, uh, for what we like to consider effective storytelling? Usually we'll have what we'll consider components of the story of beginning and middle and end. And the beginning might be just some background, maybe a little history. Uh, the middle will be the journey, whether we call it the hero's journey in there and. The, the end or the conclusion could be something where there's a transformative moment or a moment of surprise. Like if it's something that's humor, then the element of surprise is always there, something you weren't expecting that keeps things interesting. And what does make for good storytelling? Should have components of it should feel authentic. Like it's in someone's voice. That's, that's important. Mm-hmm. Ideally it should, it should be interesting. It shouldn't just be something what people have already heard. Ideally something. To do that could come with an element of surprise because now you've got someone curious, especially the A DHD brain, uh, really attracts itself to novelty and curiosity. The, ooh, tell me more, kind of thing. And, and ideally also some form of. Empathy, like it should be able to connect with people. Mm-hmm. It should be able to feel like, oh, this person gets me. Or even if it's somebody who is so not like you, you feel like, oh, now I understand this person better because of their ability to tell a story. And we remember the, uh, the quote by the, um, quote Loret, uh, Maya Angelou, who would say, people often forget what you say or what you do, but they never forget how you make them feel. Mm-hmm. Beautiful. And a good story is about how I'm making people feel. What I've seen more and more research on is. That the A DHD brain often will forget important details. And a good part of that I remember is a lot of my learnings, especially from anywhere from grade school to college, were just boring. It was just instructive. It was didactic. But if you know how to wrap it into a story and that's in throwing and interesting, you remember those details and it really works well for the A DHD brain. So I thought with you, with, with us talking earlier about what are some stories that I have of my own. Where I learned from them. Mm-hmm. And they helped me not just manage my EHD, but thrive with them. And maybe today other people will think about the stories that they have that they could share. Yeah. And, uh, I just hope this is just the start of the conversation and inspiring people to think about their experiences and then, uh, through what you're going to, uh, tell us, uh, shortly. Um, just make them think and try to. Drive some conclusions and lessons and maybe tips for moving forward. So, um, yeah, I, I would like to start with the first story and we are going back to, um. Past, we won't say how many years, but let's say, uh, high school. I love the story and high school Distance runner story of yours and over to you, but I will have some commentary because I really, really like this story. Thank, thank you. By the way, I'm, I'm okay with the disclosure my, my age and in a few weeks I will be turning 55 and I, wow. Yes, yes. I should wear a shirt that says I'm not getting old. I just keep finding new things to complain about. Things don't seem to work as well. But back, back in my high school days, I was a competitive distance runner. I found after playing a lot of different sports, I, I excelled in cross country and track and soccer. Now, at this time, I'm, I grew up in Hawaii, born and raised in Hawaii, so Hawaii had a lot of scenic places to go running. Mm-hmm. Now. I especially, this was well before I was diagnosed with A DHD or even knew what A DHD was. It wasn't even a thing in, um, in my world. But what I wasn't even aware of is that my grades tend to do better with running. I tend to to focus a little better, and was that runner's high? One of the things that would always bother me is. How things would leave my brain, and I would call that a whiteout, like I would try to remember. Then all of a sudden it's like a blackout, but I'm, I'm awake and conscious and I just couldn't understand why. I just could not keep that in my memory. One thing that I learned with running, and this is a time where I didn't have a Walkman, I didn't have headphones, but there was important things I wanted to remember to do. When I got home from running, I might run, it was a long way for me, 5, 6, 7 miles or even longer than that, and I wanted to remember the thing now. This is well before a smartphone, so I can't record my thing. I'm not having a notepad or anything. So I found something that that worked for me and that was doing an anagram, and that is when you can try to remember the first letter of the thought and then combine those possibly into a word. And when I would just put those letters together and I'd repeat them in my head just casually while running. It's something that I can do. It's like a low level type of, of, of, of recollection while doing exercise, which I found was stimulating my brain. Mm-hmm. And helping me focus by the time I got home. I would remember that anagram and what each. Letter had a certain word and that word was a thought of something I wanted to do. And so I'd, I'd get home and I'd write that, and then it's like, hey, this is a system of where I learned how to be practical. And I think that's a good thing for folks with a DH adhd. Understand is. You should train yourself, not on an ideal situation, but what if you didn't have these devices that did the work for you? Like what if you didn't have the AI tool? Mm-hmm. What if you didn't have the transcription tool? I mean, just even this past week when I went to see a comedy show and I was asked if I could share a few jokes or someone saying what was my favorite one. So when I heard a few jokes from the comedian, I put them together in the word. Spot BOT. Now I won't say the B and the T 'cause it was adult comedy. Mm-hmm. But I can say the O and the O was about, alright, how funny it is in the us, in US courts of taking an oath and somehow that's supposed to be sacrosanct when you say, do you solemnly swear? And I thought, okay, that's funny, the letter O. So I could just go by the letter O, remembering the, the comedy bit about why do we take an oath, doesn't really mean anything. So I put those things together and it started with the letter. And then it started with the word and then I remembered the comedy bit all from that. Just, just doing the smallest little thing can really help with your memory when you're having a good time or when you're, when you're doing some type of activity. Excellent, and thank you for sharing that. What I really liked about this story is that you kind of by. Intuition we're able to manage some of your symptoms without even before you were diagnosed with A DHD and at at Animal Sound Psychiatry. We are really big on. A kind of holistic approach to managing A DHD and spending time in nature and, uh, doing exercises is one important part of managing A DHD. And what, what I really liked is that you kind of intuitively knew how to self-regulate even before you ever diagnosed, which is fantastic and just speaks to your, I think, adaptability, uh, and. Another bit is just creative way to remember the information. And I think this is, uh, where being neurodivergent and creative, uh, is your advantage, not your disadvantage, but advantage. Finding new creative wave ways to help yourself in a situation that seems like impossible and, uh, that kind of, that you can't do it, but when in fact you really can and you can rely on your strengths. So. Fantastic, and thank you for sharing that story. Um, another, i, I, I hope you don't mind, uh, us moving to another story, and this is more kind of a recent history and it's talking about your experience in the work environment. That's not this, that was not necessarily a DHD friendly. So if you wouldn't mind sharing your experience and how you coped with that situation. Thanks. Sure. You know, it'd be weird if I said No, I wanna stop at one goodbye. Of course, of course. Well, that's also another thing I'd say the more you get comfortable with storytelling, the more easy it is to be open. I think the other word I'd say is vulnerable. 'cause not every story is about making you look good to, to build connections. It's about showing the times that. Things weren't good. And this was a time where things weren't good. And early on, this was, uh, after I had a business for 10 years, I went bankrupt. I had to accept I had to go back to the working world. It had been a few years. I'd done contract work here and there, and this was when moving from Chicago to North Carolina, I was actually offered a job. This case, it happened to be as a director of social media and video producer. Mm-hmm. I didn't really have much experience in social media, but. That's what I thought was kind of interesting that I thought, okay, this, this could, this could, this could work. Well when I, when I get there, and part of that was on me is not vetting the company, but to be honest, it's like I couldn't be, I couldn't be too picky about what job I was gonna take. Sometimes the first thing is just take the job and then see how it works out. Well, as I learned, this was a place that could be an A DHD nightmare. Hmm. For someone so much that it's, it's, it would be comedy if it did, if you weren't stuck in it all the time. I worked there for a year, and so what I realized is, oh, I'm actually working in an old converted house. Mm-hmm. It wasn't sound treated at all. Like we, there's so many things people are used to when they work in a, in a business building. Walls, you know, you're not hearing people yelling on the other side. Well, this place had thin walls. There was constant noise. It was in a house. It was a lot of different employees, like I think 13, 14 employees, and I'd have to share a space with a few others. Well. That means there could be constant interruptions. The receptionist said, oh, everybody here except the boss has to pick up the phone. Well, if you're trying to be doing deep work and your job requires it, ring, ring interruption, and trying to get into arguments with folks of, Hey, I'm trying to concentrate on doing something, that's what it's like, or being on the phone. Or with clients and giving a webinar part of my job. And then there's an account manager who's throwing, let's say, very colorful language, very loudly in the background. And one, it's unprofessional, but also makes me very hard to focus. So there was that lack of professional boundaries and. I tried to do some problem solving on my own. I bought noise canceling headphones to block out some things. I tried to adjust my schedule a little bit of coming in earlier when it wouldn't be so noisy, but it's, it was not a conducive work environment for the type of work I had to do, much less somebody with a DHD and and, and profound A DHD, so. I thought, well, I'll just get a note from my primary care physician who is, who treats A DHD to say Grant definitely needs a reasonable accommodation. And I thought, you know, there's a coworking space, just not even 200 yards from here where I could at least just go. One day a week, and that was something in the beginning that I asked about if we could do that was meant with silence. So I said, this is a problem for me. I have a doctor's note. Well then I was starting to realize I had a manager that was not only dismissive, but hostile, hostile to a h adhd. How I knew this was early on, I was seeing him saying to his own wife and son who worked there, he'd say, quit acting a DD. Mm. Like it was a, a negative behavior rather than an actual neurological condition. Mm-hmm. So I thought this would be my way of showing that no, this is a, a serious condition that I have. Mm-hmm. And it's a problem for me. Well, he decided to dismiss it. And what I learned later on was, oh, in the state of North Carolina. If you have under 15 employees in a building, you're not required to provide a reasonable accommodation. Hmm. It's the same thing as you're not required to have a wheelchair on ramp to, to a house. And that was, that was the po that was the policy of the state and still is, and I was not aware of that. Because after a while I'd even talked to an attorney about he's refusing to do this. Do I have a right, you know, to legal redress? And he said, that's the unfortunate situation. And I realized, oh, he was purposely doing that. He knew the law. Don't hire anyone else. Uh, well at a point it was just simply too much. And my workspace was like half the size of a, of a hall closet. I was cramped. I was trying to do some things that were helpful, like get up, go outside. But when it got to be real summer and supremely humid and the only forest had spiderwebs and mosquitoes in and dress outfits, there's only so much you can do. And I think for anyone, there's only so much time they could manage to do that. So I eventually told 'em, I said, look, I cannot work under these conditions. It's unreasonable. But I knew that. Even if I went for unemployment, North Carolina employment pays a lot less. So I negotiated with him to do contract work and I did that for six months. Turns out I was getting a lot more done, a lot more done. But I also had to accept, this is a person who was very old school. This was well pre COVID, it was 2015, and he just didn't wanna be told by anyone what to do, even though. He liked to have his own office. Uh, he liked to have everything closed, so all the things he didn't wanna allow for someone else, he had for himself. Now that's his business. Mm-hmm. He can choose to do that, but I had to think for myself on what was in my best interest. So I did it long enough till I could transfer the next job so I wouldn't be leaving on bad terms. So I made sure that with the clients that I was working with, that I got positive reviews that I could have on my LinkedIn profile. Mm-hmm. I, I looked at this as a learning experience, like one know the know your rights, where you live. Each state has different guidelines. Even it got me interested enough to do a guideline, uh, that we talked about, I think the first podcast show I did. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. On a guide for reasonable accommodations with a DH, adhd, and I learned about know, know what it's like in your state because every state could be different. Mm-hmm. Also. Advocate for yourself, even when it's uncomfortable, because change only happens when you're willing to push those boundaries, especially when they're unreasonable boundaries. Mm-hmm. And focus on solutions that you can implement. You know, even, you know what you can do now. And by the act of me showing them in wearing headphones, at least it makes a few people more mindful about, oh, maybe I'm being really loud because. Person I'm working with is having an issue. And lastly, I, you know, we go about humor. Humor can be a lifesaver. And for me, I, I deemed the off, uh, the noisy office echo nuts 'cause it, there was so much re bouncing everywhere all the time. Even the floor vibrated, the old wooden floor vibrated under me when people would be yelling. So. The laughter, the levity helped me keep going without losing my cool, and in the end, you know, found a better opportunity. I carried the lessons that I'm able to share today. Mm-hmm. Many people, especially the H Year, likely environment, that is far from ideal. And I think if you just look at this as this is a stage, this will get better, this will not always be the case. Document journal, what it was like, and one, by talking and story sharing, you'll be in a better space to collect your thoughts and then not fly off the handle if you find yourself in an uncomfortable situation. Yeah, that's very important I think. Um, first, thank you for sharing this. It's valuable and the lessons that you learned are. Really, really important. Sometimes it for everyone, it is very hard to keep your cool and stay level headed in the situations, um, that are distressing and that would be distressing for anyone and, and especially people who, um, with A DHD who struggle with lots of distractions in, uh, being able to do the work. So. Yeah, I think what you shared here is very important, and you gave folks some really good tips how to do it in a situation that might seem kind of impossible. So hopefully anyone who listens to this can, you know, just get the information and use it for themselves. But hopefully you get out from the, um, not so great work situation and move to something better. But in the meantime. Here's a help to keep your cool and just keep, keep, uh, going through it. So, and thank you so much. So, uh, grant, I would like to, I really liked, uh, your story about you being a voice or artist. It's also from your younger days, but I loved the lessons and loved your attitude, um, in that story. So I can't wait for our listeners to, um. Listen to it. Okay. Yeah, I, yeah. Thank you. This is, I do enjoy this because I get to do this today. Yeah. As part of my job of being a professional voiceover artist. In fact, people are probably listening have, I have this nice broadcaster microphone. I have a, uh, this is my home office, but it's professionally, it's acoustically treated. I have, I have just all these things that, yeah, where I get to hear myself, which is probably, yeah. It's good that my wife doesn't have to, it's part of my job, but I, but I learned a lot on the way to get here and early on I had the benefit of having fun and even before working in, in radio college radio and then I got moved to doing a, a freeform show, which is like, do what you want because okay, it's 3:00 AM to 6:00 AM who cares? But I was actually getting an audience and mm-hmm. Eventually I was offered a job over at a a talk radio AM station downtown Honolulu at the age of 22, which was. Which was nice and for me. Now, don't think in terms of pay 'cause that was terrible, but the experience Oh yeah. And this is the, the, the real time experience. And we're talking about well before live stream, when everything was terrestrial, I also had to be doing multiple things. I didn't have a radio engineer. I was the radio engineer playing these commercials, top of the hour news, all that. And then that was, that was tricky for me at first, but then I realized it's okay to fail. That's, that's how you get, that's how you get better. Mm-hmm. But a good part of it was. With my, and again, I was not diagnosed with a DH, ADHD at the time. Mm-hmm. I could to fill in three hours of time. Sometimes I could have a guest, sometimes calls would come in, sometimes they wouldn't. And it'd be a challenge and I would, what would be a good thing is the ability just to talk and talk and talk and riff, which I have the ability to do. But sometimes when you're at that young age, when you have a caller, I could be, uh, prone to speaking way too fast. All the things you notice with a DH, ADHD or rambling, not sticking to the focus or the subject, or if I had a guest on, I'd have my white out, as I say, where I completely blanked out about what they were saying. That was tough. I, I have this belief that a, that a fair amount of folks in the radio industry who are on shows have a DHD, but. Because they can just bounce around from one subject to, to another. All right. But for, but for the good folks is they catch themselves in that. Like I would get feedback from, people would say, wait, slow down, you're speaking too fast. Or like. Oh, but could we talk, could we go back to this that I was subject, that I was talking about? Yeah. So I was, I was young, I was impressionable, but I could be, I could use humor and I could laugh at myself when I'd be prone to that behavior. How it carried over further on is I went to take a voiceover class in, in between I, when I let decide to leave the marketing industry and decide I'm gonna try to work in the education industry in structural design learning facilitator, even though I'm doing it for tech companies now, and, and I would learn about. Uh, certain words need to be a little more succinct if you're doing it for e-learning or if you're doing it for demos, whereas, versus if you might be doing something that's more of a character actor where you can have some more fun and you can have some more emotional depth. Mm-hmm. So it's, it's the awareness of who is your audience, how are you coming across and with working in radio where it's just real time, everything is happening at once. You don't. You don't have time to overthink. Mm. But it taught me the skills of how you can have an interesting conversation, but also practice your listening skills. If I could make an app, I would have an app where we could see the timer of how long are, have I been talking? How long has the other person been talking? And if the other person's talking too long and I'm talking too long, it like, gives a red warning light or something, or gives you a little electric shock. Well, we won't go. That'll talk that far unless somebody, unless somebody wants that as their little z. Okay. But, but I also look at as talking too fast. Mm. Not pausing, not, um, you want to give some, sometimes you want to emphasize a certain words or a certain points, such as when you are doing a voiceover. Sometimes you have to think about, what's the word that I want to emphasize, that maybe I wanna have a little pause beforehand? And to be a good storyteller is knowing when to have those pauses. Knowing when to have emphasis on a certain word or a phrase, knowing when to change. Your tone a little bit. So sometimes I can go the opposite way where I might have too much enunciation where it doesn't sound natural. So eventually you just have to find out what's your groove, what's your lane? What sounds, what sounds natural to you and for people in the voiceover world to, we talk about now being conversational, not broadcasting, not an announcer, is what tends to get to jobs. And that's what got me this job. Mm-hmm. And uh, and it's worked really great for me. That's what I learned from my time in radio where you had permission to fail. Mm-hmm. And what I especially like about this story is your openness to, um, recognizing what went well, but maybe some things that didn't go so well and then. Willingness to willingness to learn from the experience and apply that feedback to improve, uh, what you're doing. In this case, it's being a voice or artist, which lends you a. Sort of a dream job that you're doing today, and what I would argue is that this is your okay. Voice or professional story, but I would argue that this mindset could be applied to any other industry and any other career trajectory. It's very hard to put your ego in check and just be very honest with yourself. Okay, this is working, this is not working. I do this well, but this could be improved. But if we are open to, um. We, if we have that mindset and being open to, okay, what it is that I could do better and keep learn, learning and improving ourselves, we can then improve in whatever, I think whatever career, uh, choice we have, whatever we are doing, we can improve and just lend ourselves better opportunities. So to me. This is what I get from this story. Hmm. You've heard the saying failure is training for success when you go to the gym. Exactly. And, and a fitness coach might say, push yourself to failure because if if you're not failing, you're not trying hard enough sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. It's because then you get too comfortable and you get too comfortable. You atrophy. Yeah. You're not using those creative muscles or those vocal muscles and, and, and, yeah, I agree. Especially rate issue folks, don't be afraid of failure because that will make you better at the things that you want to do. Yeah. And that's what got me better is purposely shooting higher than, uh, than I was capable at the time that got me to, now it seems effortless. Yeah. And I, I would argue that it might be especially higher for folks with A DHD who are already shamed for various reasons about their, their behavior and, um. The beha, um, certain behaviors are, um, considered as failures of the character. So now imagine trying something and maybe not doing great and expose yourself to even more criticism. So I can see that as part of it may be that some folks can have a block there and just be afraid to try things for a fear too. Just being criticized even more. Mm-hmm. But as we like also, uh, to say, uh, in our practice there are no failures. There are just lessons. And, uh, you can only learn from your experience and, and move forward. So yeah, I, I agree with you. So, and thanks for, for sharing that story. And, um, one last story for this conversation, and I really like it. It's, uh, called a face tag and. It's really networking tips for a DHD folks out there. So go ahead and share it with us. All right. This is something that I, that I do today, and mm-hmm. Yeah, we, we all see ourselves in a situation where we might be at some kind of networking event and they give those stickers to say, hi, my name is, mm-hmm. And then you write your name in there. Now there might be even some folks that like to have a professionally done name tag that's magnetic and everything else, and, and, and really go the extra mile. But for me. I thought, how do I stand out, but also make it about the person who I'm communicating with. Now, I used to be a cartoonist, as in. Semi-professional cartoons. I still love doing cartoons. Hmm. And I thought, what if, instead of just doing a name tag, what if I could show my face in that tag? So I take the sharpie marker that was given to me, and I'd always draw a cartoon image of my face. Usually the eyes kind of bulging the, the smile or the mouth open really wide with a goofy Kermit the frog hands. There, and then I'd have a word bubble and it would say Grant, and grant with an exclamation point. Maybe grant crawl if I could fit it in there. Mm-hmm. But the whole idea was, again, the element of surprise. This is storytelling in, in, in and of itself. It's, it's a way first of capturing the attention when you're in a sea of noise and who you're competing with. But part of that is it would always get either a laugh or a remark from someone at positive remarks saying, oh, that's so creative. Either I wish I could do that, or sometimes I'd even do a cartoon of someone else. But it was, it was an icebreaker. It's an invitation to a conversation, and I always say is for me, since drawing was my silly superpower I that I could use in the force form of creative communication, and so I gave it the name of face tag or face tagging. And I would say, you don't ha, you could even just do a stick figure. Just something that is still part of networking. Mm-hmm. And, and to make people who might feel a little less comfortable, like some folks saying, oh yeah, I used to do cartooning, or This was fun. And it's an easy way to break the ice, to have a conversation with somebody where they make a comment. You wanna provide easy opportunities for other people to comment on something. And then, because it's, it's, it's. It's comfortable. It's comfortable for both parties. So I still do face tagging and you, this to me is one of the best things I do for a creative communication where you are exchanging information, both parties can understand, but there's also clarity. There's empathy, there's curiosity of, Ooh, let's tell me more. Now you're building a connection. So I always attribute to. Anything that you can relate a story about, even if it's an anecdote, something small. Well, I now know that face tagging is, I even saved some of those. Face tags, those little stickies, and I'll put them in my car of, oh yeah, this is the cartoon I did for this event. Oh, this is the cartoon of me I did for this event. And it's just fun. I mean, play is a great way of feeling comfortable in any environment, and I could go into. Any event, anywhere, just do my little face tag. I mean, maybe not a funeral, but anything short of that. Mm-hmm. And, and always get a positive reaction. So I, I say to the, to the audience, people out there is try doing something a little different, you know, and, and again, you may not necessarily get the response you want, but you'll. You'll get a response. Mm-hmm. And then you'll reflect on that and you'll learn from that. And you'll think of, okay, what worked? What could I do differently? Uh, that's always helped me grow. Where to me, the face tag is one of the easiest things to find something that is just totally you and put a little bit of it out there in a space where you can be friendly with other folks. Thank you, and it just crossed my mind, uh, when we first talked about this story, um, for, and I think it could be useful for folks who are not maybe artsy and think, oh gosh, I can't draw or anything, but what you mentioned is you can actually. Ask the person to tell a little story about their name, which can help you. Well, first they're sharing something a bit more personal and different, but then also it helps you to remember their name more easily, which honestly, I will definitely try this maybe on my next networking event because I personally. I don't remember her names, uh, very well. So I want to test it and try it and see how it works, but mm-hmm. I thought it was a brilliant idea, actually. Thank you. And by the way, you do not, it's not even required that you have to remember someone's name. Yeah. You'll remember the story exactly. And by the remember next story. Exactly. Some things will come to you, but I think that's something that the, a lot of people have too much anxiety about. I have to remember the name. Just start with, yeah. Oh yeah. Sorry, I forgot your name. But I remember that story that we talked about that was great. Exactly. I mean, if it was me personally, I would rather they remember my story than remember my name. Yes, yes. Uh, that tells me there was something that they connected with. Mm-hmm. But to me, it's also a good barometer. Is the other person listening to you, are they paying attention to you? Yeah, because not everybody has to be. Someone you connect with. It's okay to be, uh, I say discriminatory. That's kind of how to be a little selective. Mm-hmm. And that's what this is about. A name tag for me. My creative way of doing, it's a feeler for what? People like that, what people are turned off by that. That's okay. You, you don't need to make a connection with everybody. Part of this is knowing when to blend in, when to stand out, and you're right. That's an opportunity for them. Like, hey, they could if, if some people, it's a fun story about their name and anecdote, for some people it might be a fun fact. Mm-hmm. So I always say is. Don't, don't pigeon your health. Don't pigeonhole yourself into just, it has to be a story about their name. That's nice. I like that. I like that a lot. Yeah. For some people it might be something a little easier of what they can remember. Like, oh yeah, I ran a marathon another three hours when it was superhuman or whatever. So I remember that as Marathon Man or whatever. So out there, and sometimes that name is a little easier to remember. Yeah. And that becomes the hooker, the MOC device, which is eventually their name. But in truth, you're not gonna need to really remember most of these people's names 'cause you're not seeing them every single day. Mm. Uh if it's somebody who you work with, okay, then you know what you can do. You can put that on a sticky and on that sticky you could write, what's that fun factor story. So you have that as your reminder. Mm-hmm. So these things kind of be selective. We can't remember everybody and everything, but we can pay enough attention to build a little bit of a connection. Yeah. And thanks, thanks for sharing that. So I, I, I really liked it and yeah, it's a good reminder. Sometimes you even, uh, it's only enough to put people in different contexts in, uh, I remember myself, oh, I saw a person, but I really can't remember where I know these people from. So it, these stories kind of can help with that. So, uh, it really a, a amazing tips. So, uh, definitely trying it myself. Thank you. Thank you so much, grant. And, uh, this would be all this, this is all of your stories. If people like it, we can, uh, invite you and, uh, for you to share more. So that's, that's fantastic. If. Our listeners want to connect with you, uh, online. Uh, where is it? They can find you. Okay. Yeah. They can find my little profile picture on LinkedIn with where I, uh, I might, and just my name, grant Kroll, G-R-A-N-T-C-R-O-W-E-L-L. As far, it's nice to know how to do voiceover's, 'cause I can be succinct. Like, I'll just say the word smooth jazz. Wow. Nice. Yes, I, I know, I know how to, that, that's, that is helpful because I know, I know I've, I've accomplished where I need to, when I can speak into any speech to text device and it gets words perfectly most of the time there too, that that's where I know I'm using the right voice, but where they can find me LinkedIn because. Yeah, connect with me if you, if you happen to listen to this or if you have a, a story or a struggle. I'm always glad to be a little helpful. Mm-hmm. And we can be linked inmates. What I like to do on there is I do like using generative AI art and telling some fun stories or coming up with a made up word for something that either is an observation or may annoy me. So I'm turning my struggles into a game. So I try to make it entertaining. I'm, I, I don't, I'm not trying to give tip. Top business tips or anything like that. I'm just having a little fun and being myself. You can also get my book if you like, made up Words for Real Connections. I have a book that's on Amazon in both print and ebook called Grand Chasms. Mm-hmm. Creative Twisted Words for Cool People and that is hundreds of anecdotes and also chapter form. I try to make it into these little anecdotes, all becoming bigger stories. Um, self of my journey of. Dealing with a DHD in my life and, you know, some, um, some peaks and valleys and, uh mm-hmm. And some tough times and good times over. Now that there, now there's something purposeful. And that is what if you could turn your struggles into a game and a communication game. So if you like what you've heard here, I'd recommend checking out, checking out that book. And it's, it's easy to read. It's just something you can just get a grand chasm a day. Keeps the a DH ADHD at bay, by the way. Oh, I only, yeah. YouTube channel. Same name. Grant crawl. I, I haven't posted as much. I have 11,000 subscribers. I don't know why they're still around, but, uh, I, I, I, I like dabbling in just being creative with the communication. I think my goal is eventually is to build a program, helping people communicate better and have fun doing it and, and knowing what is, what is your superpower? What's that thing that you enjoy doing, that people enjoy that, that. Other people at some effort, but seems to, to come to a little effortlessly to you. And that's, that's what I hope to do from all this is put yourself out there and, uh, and make some connections on the way and have a good time. Yeah. Uh, despite all the odds. So, uh, thank you. Thank you Grant so much. And I hope we'll have you in the, on the podcast soon, so you have your, your experience is invaluable and you're full of stories, so that's for sure. Thank you so much. I, I, I'm glad, glad you said stories and not something else. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Okay.